Zot is dead

Wed, 06 Mar 2019 22:34:02 +0000 last edited: Wed, 06 Mar 2019 22:59:38 +0000

I really worry about the future of Zot...

First observation: no new project based on Zot is created

Second observation: no existing project works on adding Zot support (eg: https://git.feneas.org/socialhome/socialhome/issues/479 Socialhome gave up)

I see 2 reasons to explain that:

No documentation (a volatile wikipage on @Mike Macgirvin ⚡ space with messy notes is not a documentation. Compare OWA specs with https://indieauth.spec.indieweb.org/ )
It's not a standard.
See https://github.com/nextcloud/social/issues/228 . The fact that's it's not a standard make devs believe it's not stable, tested, and well-designed. And they're right: #zot6 is not yet fully deployed that limitations already raise and a zot8 version is on the way...

What we need:

A true documentation and a standardization process (where other devs can submit comments, where PoC are used to valid it...)
Library, to ease the use by other projects. See https://github.com/dsblank/activitypub, https://github.com/go-fed/activity, https://github.com/dansup/php-activitypub for #activitypub

With this 2 points, #zot acceptation should increase. I think some projects will have a look (like #solid which really fit with #NomadicIdentities concept)

Without Zot adoption, there will be only 2 active projects by the same small coreteam, and it's going to die (like #Diaspora* will eventually).
@Matt Dent (Zap) complains about lack of developers for #Hubzilla. I was willing to offer my help (because 147 issues is quite high), but when I looked to the code I was frighten. It's a real mess with lots of looseness, bug-prone parts, and spaghetti code. For instance, hardcoded MySQL request in controllers... come on! Even the ckeckstyle is not respected!
By not using frameworks, Hubzilla present a non-maintainable, hard to evolute, bug-prone code. It would need a real refactor (with a framework I guess). Or another project from scratch when zot is a standard...

I used to be a Hz enthusiast.
I'd like to be one again.

!Hubzilla Support Forum !zotlabs.org | Hubzilla Development

show all 9 Comments

ivan zlax

Thu, 07 Mar 2019 09:42:51 +0000 last edited: Thu, 07 Mar 2019 09:43:32 +0000

@Max if you change the subject of this topic i will to join to your enthusiasm.

Mario Vavti

Thu, 07 Mar 2019 10:32:40 +0000

Well, instead of waisting your time complainig, better roll up your sleeves and start fixing what you think needs fixing :wink:

OJ Random

Thu, 07 Mar 2019 16:46:33 +0000

@max I would suggest to just give it a try and debug Hubzilla a little bit on the server side, write an own small plugin,... It is much fun and fascinating how well thought and elegant the solutions are. Think about it a moment - the solutions Hubzilla takles are not trivial. While debugging the code I was astonished how clear and simple the ideas appear to solve those non trivial tasks.

See the evolution of the protocol as a good sign. The main devs dare to refactor things. Despite all this Hubzilla runs stable. This is no accident.

Yesterday I just exported my ID/channel to a JSON file, installed a new Hub on the same Raspi 3 using a new URL and imported my ID into the new Hub. It just WORKS! Do you know a Software (AP, Diaspora, Mastodon,...) that can do those kind of stuff?

Mario Vavti

Thu, 07 Mar 2019 18:44:20 +0000

@Eric Buijs the only disrespectful thing so far is the title of the post...

paulfree14

Thu, 07 Mar 2019 19:10:54 +0000

there's some wording that I find critical.

Overlooking that, it's a critic that is valid.
If it's true another question.

dev

Fri, 08 Mar 2019 09:48:09 +0000

Zot is not dead, but the documentation is .... you know, there isn't a unique way to read all the spec, and todo, and to understand how is working ! It's really hard to come in this project !

I'm trying to help on https://framagit.org/hubzilla/core

Is it a good way ?

Max

Tue, 12 Mar 2019 09:01:05 +0000 last edited: Tue, 12 Mar 2019 09:41:15 +0000

Sadly, @M. Dent totally missed the point, and think that ad nominem attacks could make you appear you're right. Too bad.
(By the way, he seems to ignore that I'm a Hubzilla advocacy outside the zotiverse (it woul be useless inside), and he didn't search very long about my records in the community. In short, a useless comment of a upset man... Forgettable)

@ivan zlax, @paulfree14 : yes, the title is provocative. But sometimes, some one has to thumped the table. I'm glad to see people agree, but it would be better if they expressed it before my post.

@Mario Vavti : here it is
https://www.w3.org/community/blog/2019/03/11/proposed-group-zot-protocol-community-group/

Once at least 5 people have supported the proposal, the group will be
launched and people will be able to join.

Now it's your turn.

#zot #hubzilla #Zot6

Mario Vavti

Tue, 12 Mar 2019 09:21:23 +0000

Sorry @Max, if you want to continue this discussion please start a new one with a positive approach...

Altyr on Zap

Fri, 04 Dec 2020 18:57:22 +0000

Hello.

Now that #Hubzilla 5 is released, and #Zot6 used in several projets, what is the status of documentation and workshop at #W3C?