Zotlabs|Hubzilla Development

Fri, 27 May 2022 08:47:05 +0000

Scott M. Stolz wrote the following post Fri, 27 May 2022 08:47:05 +0000

Extendable Protocols

It would be nice if the protocols that Hubzilla uses, such as Zot and ActivityPub, could be extended to support additional information similar to how e-mail headers work.

Any sending e-mail client can add whatever e-mail headers it wants to an e-mail. Receiving e-mail clients can choose to use those fields or ignore them.

Such a setup would allow Hubzilla forums to communicate with each other without confusing other platforms.

Platforms that do not recognize the additional fields get a basic experience. Platforms that recognize the additional forum-related fields would get an enhanced experience.

hubzilla zot activitypub

emaxmax

Fri, 27 May 2022 19:32:42 +0000

#Zot and #ActivityPub are #RDF based, which is the most extensible model nowdays.

Scott M. Stolz

Sat, 28 May 2022 08:40:55 +0000

But would other platforms get confused if there were additional information attached? Or would they just ignore it if they don't know what it is?

Image in Hubzilla not displayed on Misskey

Max

Mon, 21 Oct 2019 14:52:54 +0000

Hello !zotlabs.org | Hubzilla Development

What do you think of the issue https://github.com/syuilo/misskey/issues/5510 ?
Is is a bug with #Misskey? With #Hubzilla? A limitation of #ActivityPub?

Thanks

PS: searching on the web to hopefully find instances where it got sync, it seams to work fin with the Diaspora* protocol. https://www.fessebouc.fr/posts/8573718a-4090-43a4-bc2b-4b8b003725a6

Tue, 22 Oct 2019 02:35:53 +0000 last edited: Tue, 22 Oct 2019 02:35:33 +0000

The image itself is not "from Hubzilla" - the image is actually being served from a 3rd party site (framapic), which may be relevant depending on how Misskey deals with images (I have absolutely NO idea with regard to Misskey).

Looking at the HTML source on page displayed on the Misskey site referenced in the issue report, I don't see any html referencing the image at all - which means somewhere along the line it was stripped out. The fact that D* receives and displays it properly is at least evidence that the issue is not an obvious Hubzilla issue. My guess (and it's only that) is that somewhere along the line, Misskey doesn't like something about the IMG tag and has removed it.

Since I don't know anything about Misskey any guesses would be purely speculation and probably not helpful.

W3C Proposed Zot Protocol Community Group

Francois Carpentier

Sat, 15 Jun 2019 10:20:34 +0000 last edited: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 23:59:03 +0000

The zot protocol Community Group has been proposed by Max Elder:

To standardize the Zot protocol currently used in Hubzilla and Zap, and to push its adoption for social web.

You are invited to support the creation of this group. Once the group has a total of five supporters, it will be launched and people can join to begin work. In order to support the group, you will need a W3C account.

Read more, join, or support this W3C Community group at https://www.w3.org/community/blog/2019/03/11/proposed-group-zot-protocol-community-group/

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For those not familiar with W3C, the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) is the main international standards organization for the World Wide Web (abbreviated WWW or W3)

For those not familiar with W3C Community groups, they are:
• "proposed and run by the community."
• "designed to promote innovation and to lower barriers to individual participation."
• "enable anyone to socialize their ideas for the Web at the W3C for possible future standardization".
Read more at https://www.w3.org/community/about/
- - - - - - - - -

This is one of my first posts on Hubzilla. Your suggestion or questions are always really welcome :)
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Archive W3C Community Group page
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Mentions

!Zotlabs.org | 'cause we've got Zot
@zotlabs.org | Hubzilla Announcements
!zotlabs.org | Hubzilla Development
!Zot universe NEWS
@Andrew
@Mario Vavti
@Max Kostikov

#W3C #W3C #Hubzilla #Hubzilla #Zot #Zap #Zot #Zap #Zot Protocol #Zot Protocol

show all 67 Comments

Sat, 15 Jun 2019 12:20:19 +0000

Without Zot author @Mike Macgirvin there is nothing to talk about

hEARt PhoniX

Sat, 15 Jun 2019 13:39:42 +0000 last edited: Sat, 15 Jun 2019 13:40:33 +0000

I see Mike's photo at the group's supporters entry.

Sat, 15 Jun 2019 14:53:09 +0000

@h.ear.t
Thanks, I just saw him there too

hEARt PhoniX

Sat, 15 Jun 2019 17:13:24 +0000

And I am supporter #5 ^^

Francois Carpentier

Sat, 15 Jun 2019 21:25:16 +0000 last edited: Sat, 15 Jun 2019 22:26:29 +0000

Without Zot author @Mike Macgirvin there is nothing to talk about

Hello @Max Kostikov :) Thanks for both your comment and all your contribution to Hubzilla. I agree that @Mike Macgirvin is a valuable and important part of this W3C Community group. Assuming he is both available and interested. The good news is that according to this Community group page, Mike is. All are welcome to join the group. Including you Max. I see that today you also joined. Welcome.

Maybe my original message was not clear. My intention was to extend an invitation to other Hubzilla enthusiasts for their review for interest. My intention was not to interfere with anyone ;) In other words, Mike is the original author of the baby Hubzilla, now the baby is interested in further growth, LOL (joke ;)
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@All :) For those not familiar with Mike. He is the original author of Hubzilla. Mike choose a MIT license. Which implies that he invite the Hubzilla community to continue Hubzilla growth and protect your rights. According to Hubzilla Governance, "The [Hubzilla] project is maintained and decisions made by the 'community'." All are welcome to join the efforts. There are many ways in which you are welcome to contribute to Hubzilla.

For those not familiar with W3C Community groups, they are:
• "proposed and run by the community."
• "designed to promote innovation and to lower barriers to individual participation."
• "enable anyone to socialize their ideas for the Web at the W3C for possible future standardization".
Read more at https://www.w3.org/community/about/

Francois Carpentier

Sat, 15 Jun 2019 21:34:48 +0000

And I am supporter #5 ^^

Thanks for joining @h.EAR.t and welcome :)

hEARt PhoniX

Mon, 17 Jun 2019 22:45:48 +0000 last edited: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 00:16:17 +0000

I thought with 5 supporters the group would be established? Now we are 6 ...
Maybe I'll just need more patience ...

Francois Carpentier

Mon, 24 Jun 2019 20:55:24 +0000 last edited: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 20:56:07 +0000

@h.EAR.t :) I was wondering the same thing. As of today June 24th the "zot protocol" Community group is supported/sponsored by 7 people. Matthew Dent is the 7th who joined. But the group is not yet showing in the current groups at https://www.w3.org/community/groups/

This is the last information I'm aware of from W3. Which you already know about:

Once the group has a total of five supporters, it will be launched and people can join to begin work.

Once launched, the group will no longer be listed as “proposed”; it will be in the list of current groups.

I was assuming that after 5+ sponsors, the launch was automated. I guess either someone at W3 needs time for their manual action, or their review for approval. Or maybe Max Elder needs to do a manual action from his end. I'm assuming he is a volunteer so speaking for myself I'm grateful for his contribution, and he is really welcome to take as much time as he needs. Maybe there is another action we're not aware of is in progress.

hEARt PhoniX

Mon, 24 Jun 2019 21:44:25 +0000

Yes, I had been looking for a while but ... we'll see.

El Dorado

Tue, 25 Jun 2019 03:34:34 +0000

Without Zot author @Michael Macgirvin there is nothing to talk about

Interestingly I have a totally different opinion. This isn't about me and never was. This is about what kind of future you want. Facebook is not a very appealing future, and frankly neither is Mastodon. What we've got is a pretty solid basis for something incredibly great. I'm an old man relatively speaking with health issues and who is already living beyond the most optimistic expectations. It's unlikely I'll be around to see this through. If others don't pick up the ball and run with it the ball isn't likely to make it into the endzone.

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum)

Tue, 25 Jun 2019 21:36:16 +0000

Supported. Cannot see my name, though.

Max

Wed, 26 Jun 2019 09:55:38 +0000

@Francois Carpentier : no, I don't have any tools to launch the group. This need a validation from the W3 staff. We just have to wait a bit.
The next step will be to choose a chairman, and to write a charter https://github.com/w3c/cg-charter

Einer von Vielen

Wed, 26 Jun 2019 22:05:30 +0000

@Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum) I do see your name

hEARt PhoniX

Thu, 27 Jun 2019 00:00:56 +0000

13 Supporter. No idea how this works.

Waitman Gobble

Thu, 27 Jun 2019 02:36:50 +0000

I added 14. Can't wait till we get to 5, maybe by March 2020! New Math is weirdo

OJ Random

Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:46:58 +0000

14+Baby=15 @Waitman Gobble promising youth, promising times

emaxmax

Thu, 27 Jun 2019 13:28:02 +0000

It's launched! https://www.w3.org/community/zot/

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum)

Thu, 27 Jun 2019 19:35:29 +0000 last edited: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 21:15:51 +0000

# Step 0 - Create a W3 Zot protocol community group

Completed.

# Step 1- Join W3 Zot protocol community group
You can now join the new group and become a participant via https://www.w3.org/community/zot/join

Create a W3 profile, login and join.

As of now, only four people including myself have joined the new W3 Zot group as participants, see https://www.w3.org/community/zot/participants

# Step 2 - Elect a Chair
Participants can be elected by other participants as Chair. Chair can leave position.

Edit: just received an automatic email from W3 I am Chair, which seems premature.

Edit: https://www.w3.org/community/zot/participants shows no Chair is elected yet - the automatic email was wrong, good.

# Step 3 - Publish documents
After Chair is elected from participants, the group can publish documents. There is a FAQ about how to run group and available tools.

Harald Klimach

Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:00:34 +0000

So, Max would be the natural chair, as he made the proposal? Or what are the plans?

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum)

Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:39:00 +0000

I would rather NOT be chair. However, I would like to know who Max Elder is, a short intro would be nice. The floor is yours, Max.

( https://osada.app/channel/max gave a 404 tonight, so perhaps Max has a clone somewhere?)

Waitman Gobble

Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:26:06 +0000

Long live the Chair! Are you the chair? What does a chair do?

Waitman Gobble

Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:27:28 +0000

Osada.app was taken down.

Waitman Gobble

Fri, 28 Jun 2019 03:20:20 +0000

I sent Max an email and told him we are waiting for him here.

Waitman Gobble

Fri, 28 Jun 2019 03:24:28 +0000

Actually i have a hunch that emaxmax who announced 'it launched' earlier in this thread is the same max

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum)

Fri, 28 Jun 2019 05:45:42 +0000

Right, to keep the ball rolling, I have proposed four of five participants as Chair, excluding myself, based on interest, known involvement with development and trust. I hope this is okay, you can unelect yourselves as needed. Congratulations to Max Elder, Tobias Luther, Max Kostikov and Harald Klimach!

$\o/$ :champagne:

Harald Klimach

Fri, 28 Jun 2019 06:59:33 +0000

I would also rather not serve as a chair. I am lacking all the expertise, I fear.

Harald Klimach

Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:13:09 +0000

Starting point for the report would be https://framagit.org/zot/zap/tree/master/spec/Zot6?

Max

Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:19:17 +0000

@Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum)
I'm just a #hubzilla user willing to see more project adopting #Zot, which implies clear and reviewed specifications.
I can't and won't be chair, but I will try to review the proposed documentation.
@Waitman Gobble is right : @emaxmax is my Hubzilla account to help debug an issue with Mastodon.

And the first point after electing the chair is to write the Charter which will explain what documents we intend to produce. Next, indeed, our starting point will be the documentation on framagit.

El Dorado

Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:39:33 +0000 last edited: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:31:18 +0000

Looks like I was promoted or nominated to chair; either that or they're just picking people at random. I also respectfully decline for health reasons.

[Edit: Though I will provide assistance and clarifications and specification edits as my situation permits. The next month or two isn't looking promising. Some deficiencies in the spec that I'm currently aware of are:

- more detail on the existing/deployed permissions. Permissions are extensible and can be somewhat arbitrary but we do use a few of the existing ones in ways that need to be better documented.

- Detail on 2 or 3 extensions we've provided to ActivityStreams to make our life easier. They aren't absolutely necessary but are good to have in a Zot environment.

- Nomadic content is not well documented. It also isn't really being used at the moment but will be important going forward.
]

Harald Klimach

Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:12:05 +0000

Looks like I was promoted or nominated to chair; either that or they're just picking people at random.

That was my fault, I nominated you in my place...

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum)

Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:15:49 +0000

@Harald Klimach - https://framagit.org/zot/zap/tree/master/spec is probably a better starting point, since we need to describe both decentralized authentication (OpenWebAuth - OWA) and decentralized authorization (Zot).

@Mike Macgirvin - related to Harald's question - have there been any updates to the specs which are not available in https://framagit.org/zot/zap/tree/master/spec ? I ask since the last updates are five months old.

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum)

Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:39:21 +0000

Right, we are down to you Tobias Luther - @h.ear.t or you Max Kostikov - @Max Kostikov , which boils down to a need for a chair to move forward at all within W3, personal motivation and opportunity, opportunity - having or being willing to have - being key.

@h.ear.t and @Max Kostikov - as a highly active Hubzilla and Zot developers - see https://zotlabs.org/page/hubzilla/hubzilla-project and https://framagit.org/kostikov - I think it makes sense for you two to be chair and co-chair or vise-versa. What say you?

Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:50:06 +0000 last edited: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:51:12 +0000

@Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum) I'm really appreciate for your trust but sorry, guys, but I'm not ready to take any chairs because of lack of my Zot knowledge. I believe @Mario Vavti will be a right person.

Mario Vavti

Fri, 28 Jun 2019 09:33:43 +0000

I believe @Mario Vavti will be a right person.

Sorry, i can not afford more time besides my work for Hubzilla in the foreseeable future.
I am willing to help though if i can...

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum)

Fri, 28 Jun 2019 09:45:10 +0000

Right, @h.ear.t - will you be chair?

hEARt PhoniX

Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:22:23 +0000

A chair may also be a moderator, I suppose? And I guess we'll do this together anyway.
As almost all of us I stumbled into this without knowing much wat to expect. :)

Maybe we should create a dedicated channel to coordinate ourselves in the background. I'd create a zot coordination channel at zotlabs.org as a primary home if this may seem useful to you.

Harald Klimach

Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:42:39 +0000

Yes, I think that would be helpful, there are also two mailing lists and an IRC channel available from the w3c group. Though, I am not quite sure how to use the mailing lists. I guess, those that joined the group are automatically subscribed.

Harald Klimach

Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:47:17 +0000

It probably would also be a good idea to have a repository where we can create the reports together.

Harald Klimach

Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:07:07 +0000

Could also try out https://papeeria.com/ for text editing, but I have no idea how well that works. Alternatively we could make use of Authorea. I started a sample document there: https://www.authorea.com/380497/9VZPTNdcG4210gs-AGgVzw

Max

Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:32:23 +0000

@Francois Carpentier @Max Kostikov @h.ear.t @ojrandom @emaxmax @Harald Klimach
Remember we can ask for a wiki if needed: https://www.w3.org/community/about/tool/

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum)

Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:56:31 +0000

May I suggest to use our regular tools set to public access, then link in those at W3? In the beginning it will be us anyway, and showing off our own Zot enabled sites and tools, e.g. wiki tools, chat tools or Framasoft git wiki etc, will show potential newcomers that we are not "paperware".

Harald Klimach

Fri, 28 Jun 2019 14:38:50 +0000

May I suggest to use our regular tools set to public access, then link in those at W3?

Of course, but for the creation of an actual report design of the specification, I think it is better to use a repository than a wiki. All communication around it would perfectly well fit into channel on zotlabs, as suggested by @h.EAR.t.

hEARt PhoniX

Fri, 28 Jun 2019 14:50:19 +0000

Ok. I will only do it if we try to get this flying all together. I am even more clueless as of now. Regarding Zot details and W3C workings.

hEARt PhoniX

Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:03:13 +0000

https://zotlabs.org/channel/zot

Francois Carpentier

Fri, 28 Jun 2019 23:28:59 +0000

>I'm an old man relatively speaking with health issues and who is already living beyond the most optimistic expectations. It's unlikely I'll be around to see this through.
@Mike Macgirvin :) Sorry to hear that about your health challenges. I hope your road to recovery is short, sweet, and brings you at a healthy place to your liking. Take care. BTW could a patch file fix your health challenges? If yes, I would be happy to test such patch, or write the documentation. (joke ;) I wish it would be this easy.

>If others don't pick up the ball and run with it the ball isn't likely to make it into the endzone.
Good point. I feel confident both Zot and Hubzilla presently feel the love from all sides. In turn, this will fuel them up toward the endzone. As original author, it was wise from you to choose an open source MIT license. During your recovery this might make both your life and recovery easier. I guess the more contributors join the efforts, the easier it will be for you to scale up or down your contribution depending on your present health. Also such license will protect all your projects to remain focus on public interests.

Wishing you all you need to both feel better and be back at an healthy place to your liking

Francois Carpentier

Fri, 28 Jun 2019 23:49:37 +0000 last edited: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 23:52:37 +0000

>Maybe we should create a dedicated channel to coordinate ourselves in the background. I'd create a zot coordination channel at zotlabs.org as a primary home if this may seem useful to you.

@h.EAR.t :) Good idea. +1 for this. By using a Hubzilla channel powered by Zot protocol, we would walk our talk. In turn, this is likely to build trust and confidence in Zot.

I joined the channel at

'cause we've got Zot

zot@zotlabs.org

https://zotlabs.org/channel/zot

Nice touch with the 'cause we've got Zot title. It's funny :)

Francois Carpentier

Sat, 29 Jun 2019 18:06:20 +0000 last edited: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 18:22:04 +0000

@h.EAR.t :) About the Hubzilla zot channel you created to coordinate ourselves. I tried to joined at https://zotlabs.org/channel/zot but it did not work. I'm new to Hubzilla. Maybe there is an additional step I have not yet learn about?

Steps to reproduce

1. Go to https://zotlabs.org/channel/zot

2. User is automatically log-in with "OpenWebAuth"

3. Click on "Connect" green button

4. This message is automatically added: "Connection added."

5. Go back to https://zotlabs.org/channel/zot User is not able to post anything to the zot channel. Not able to like, not able to add comment, mention are not showing.

Was this channel meant for all contributors? Or just for the chair? Or else?

Francois Carpentier

Sat, 29 Jun 2019 18:37:46 +0000

Good morning @Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum) :) About your comment

# Step 1- Join W3 Zot protocol community group
You can now join the new group and become a participant via https://www.w3.org/community/zot/join

Create a W3 profile, login and join.

As of now, only three people including myself have joined the new W3 Zot group as participants.

Done. Yesterday Jun 28th I sent my request to join the group as participants. I received a confirmation message from W3. They are reviewing my request.

El Dorado

Sun, 30 Jun 2019 03:54:49 +0000

have there been any updates to the specs

The basic specs are pretty stable. I mentioned in an edit to an earlier comment what needed to be updated. Primarily this is more detail on permissions, ActivityStreams extensions, and nomadic content.

hEARt PhoniX

Sun, 30 Jun 2019 07:27:51 +0000

@Mike Macgirvin Missed that post, thanks.

OJ Random

Sun, 30 Jun 2019 14:44:07 +0000

@Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum) I would like to propose you as one of the chairmens.

hEARt PhoniX

Sun, 30 Jun 2019 20:49:03 +0000

I am right now attempting to deeper ubderstand the specs. I think I may attempt my own writeup and explanation, as that can best make sure I get it.

Harald Klimach

Mon, 01 Jul 2019 07:02:50 +0000

@h.EAR.t I connected to the channel but can't comment there.

hEARt PhoniX

Mon, 01 Jul 2019 12:10:16 +0000

Should be resolved. It's now a public forum.

emaxmax

Tue, 02 Jul 2019 07:55:43 +0000

Don't forget to advocate this group to #Activitypub developers: their reviews will be interesting.

Harald Eilertsen

Tue, 23 Jul 2019 14:10:02 +0000

This is a great initiative! Not able to join the w3c group as it's guarded by google's grim claws, but I hope to be able to follow the most important discussions in this group as well :)

rialtate

Wed, 24 Jul 2019 22:52:32 +0000

@Harald Eilertsen same

Wed, 24 Jul 2019 22:57:54 +0000 last edited: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 22:57:35 +0000

@Harald Eilertsen -for different reasons, but I'm unable to join o.n W3C as well. Hopefully discussion will be primarily on our own platform and then the consolidated results on W3C
..

Sat, 31 Aug 2019 20:26:56 +0000

@Harald Eilertsen same too

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum)

Wed, 04 Sep 2019 05:06:30 +0000

Chairs, what is the current status and roadmap ahead?

hEARt PhoniX

Wed, 04 Sep 2019 06:42:43 +0000

You have not missed a thing. I am using my vacation right now to create a suggestion.
The W3C wants us to use their tools as far as I understand. But I am all for consolidating.
Give me a few days still, I am eeading and preparing.

emaxmax

Mon, 03 Feb 2020 09:27:03 +0000

Bad news: https://github.com/pixelfed/pixelfed/issues/216
Pixelfed refuse nomadic identities. With Zot specs it could have been different...

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum)

Mon, 03 Feb 2020 14:36:59 +0000

Can we simply point to our spec or copy-paste it into W3 to get moving?

Mon, 03 Feb 2020 23:01:39 +0000

I like how the well explained proposition is responded to.

We are not interested in nomadic identity.

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum)

Mon, 03 Feb 2020 23:49:18 +0000

:laughing: We have a word for this in Norwegian - heimføding - a person who is unfamiliar with conditions, customs and cultures outside their home. The heimføding is "not interested in nomadic identity", because they fear once you get a taste for nomadic identity, you will never stay home and be out partying all night!

:champagne: :cocktail:

#gotzot

Harald Eilertsen

Tue, 04 Feb 2020 08:53:35 +0000

@Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum)

heimføding

While that may be it, I don't think so. It's quite clear that introducing nomadic identities will require architectural, and potentially breaking changes to their existing system, the price may be too high compared to the demand. They have a lot on their roadmap, and are progressing quite fast, so spending time on something only a few of us weirdo's here out in Zot land wants may not be the right choice for them. Especially if it will slow down the rest of their development.

That said, the thread should be archived somewhere. It gives a good overview of how some early architectural choices will allow or block certain features up the road.

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum)

Tue, 04 Feb 2020 15:14:26 +0000

introducing nomadic identities will require architectural, and potentially breaking changes to their existing system

Yup.

To clarify the use of the potensial insult 'heimføding'. We - through DFRN and Zot - have 10 years of experience with live federation and have already met most bumps in the road. We have repeatedly tried our best to share those experiences with those who came after, so they could get resilience and built-in privacy and did not have to get those bad experiences, which are very similar to the dialogue in Monty Python's Dead Parrot skit - I paraphrase:

Owner: No no! The hub is pining!

Mr. Praline: 'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This hub is no more! It has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-HUB!!

Ex-hubs galore, so if those new solutions do not allow you to take your friends and data and go before a hub dies - we do it live by cloning, then I am afraid you will not enjoy the federation very much. Just don't let them tell you they were not told, because they were.

Importing events and sharing

Tue, 12 Mar 2019 22:13:10 +0000 last edited: Tue, 12 Mar 2019 22:46:38 +0000

!zotlabs.org | Hubzilla Development

I'm shiny new with hubzilla and I'm a step before to fall in love.
Maybe this isn't the right way to write for question, please point me what should I do with my question.

I want to manage several events in hubzilla and facing two problems.

* First problem, when I create an event it doesn't get showed if I search for tags used in this event. As example, following event use the tag #wave , but the event isn't shared in the page for this tag. If I share this event and copy the tags into the shared post it gets shared. Is this how it works in hubzilla or should it work as expected, the event should present at tag page without sharing?
This event as example: Rome - Silvio Grau - silvio@ussr.win

* The caldav app doesn't work with the standard calendar. My expectation is the caldav calendar is the same calendar which I have in Termine page. I would love it when I can manage all my events via caldav.

* And a minor topic, exists a plugin to write my content in markdown.

Thanks in advance,
Silvio

#sorryenglishisntmynativelanguage

faq

show all 10 Comments

El Dorado

Thu, 14 Mar 2019 02:40:53 +0000

* first problem - I don't believe we currently do any tag processing on events. So the autocomplete function inserts a link, but we don't actually do anything to make the event available at that link in the same way as we do for similar things like articles and cards. This is probably desirable but this is the first time anybody asked about it. I'd suggest filing an enhancement request (issue) if you are willing and able to do so.

* The caldav app doesn't work with the standard calendar. This is a known issue and has been on the roadmap to resolve for around 4 years. The only thing preventing it happening is that it is hard. No not like "impossible", we do those things all the time. Hard as in our best developers have been trying to do it for four years and have pretty much given up. The problem isn't that it can't be done. The problem is that it can't be done and still federate events with Friendica, Diaspora, and ActivityPub which we can do now - because those systems are unable to support a lot of the CalDAV constructs (such as repeating events and task lists). Every time I've suggested that we drop compatibility with one of these platforms so that we can move beyond their limitations I've been rebuffed.

* The mdpost addon (I believe this is available as an editor setting if the addon is installed on your site. Editor settings are found by opening the post editor and clicking the gear inside it). The addon is unsupported and unmaintained, but it works "ok" for simple stuff and isn't too bad. Once in a while you'll try something that blows its little mind like putting lists inside tables or something like that. The editor still uses bbcode internally. It just translates markdown to HTML and then to bbcode for storage/transmission and then back to HTML to display the post. When something goes wrong it's usually not the markdown plugin that gets confused, but a combination of all the other translators that are involved from start to finish. If you're just doing bold, italics, and links and maybe simple lists, you should be fine.

OJ Random

Thu, 14 Mar 2019 14:08:00 +0000

because those systems are unable to support a lot of the CalDAV constructs (such as repeating events and task lists). Every time I've suggested that we drop compatibility with one of these platforms so that we can move beyond their limitations I've been rebuffed.

ZAP does not have this "limitation" (to federate)

Thu, 14 Mar 2019 18:56:27 +0000 last edited: Thu, 14 Mar 2019 18:59:04 +0000

Thanks for answering me @!Mike Macgirvin.

* first problem - I don't believe we currently do any tag processing on events. So the autocomplete function inserts a link, but we don't actually do anything to make the event available at that link in the same way as we do for similar things like articles and cards. This is probably desirable but this is the first time anybody asked about it. I'd suggest filing an enhancement request (issue) if you are willing and able to do so.

Okay - yeah - I will create an feature request. This will be done on the framagit.org page - or?

* The caldav app doesn't work with the standard calendar. This is a known issue and has been on the roadmap to resolve for around 4 years. The only thing preventing it happening is that it is hard. No not like "impossible", we do those things all the time. Hard as in our best developers have been trying to do it for four years and have pretty much given up. The problem isn't that it can't be done. The problem is that it can't be done and still federate events with Friendica, Diaspora, and ActivityPub which we can do now - because those systems are unable to support a lot of the CalDAV constructs (such as repeating events and task lists). Every time I've suggested that we drop compatibility with one of these platforms so that we can move beyond their limitations I've been rebuffed.

The first thing what I had in mind as I read you text was: "Okay then leave out the the compatibility till they come with a useable feature", but yes you have though it allready. Thanks for this. For me it is important because I could fill a magnitude more events I want to share for my community. Now I'm just creating some of this events.

* The mdpost addon ...

I will try this.

El Dorado

Thu, 14 Mar 2019 19:21:10 +0000

You can still import/export events from iCal sources like Outlook and Thunderbird. I know - it's more of a manual process rather than an automatic one (especially with repeats) and isn't the optimum interaction but it's something of a bridge between the systems.

El Dorado

Fri, 15 Mar 2019 02:29:08 +0000

ZAP does not have this "limitation" (to federate)

Zap federates with Hubzilla.

OJ Random

Fri, 15 Mar 2019 09:29:18 +0000

Must a calendar event federate via not-ZOT protocols?

I do not know how many users are using this or would miss it. I do not know either which network supports sending calendar events. Are there any out there, Mastodon, Diaspora,...?

hEARt PhoniX

Fri, 15 Mar 2019 11:13:34 +0000

A workaround may be to strip a calendar from a federated account off all non-realying functionality and to communicate that to the respective member.

OJ Random

Fri, 15 Mar 2019 11:38:27 +0000

Addition: ActivityPub knows events.

hEARt PhoniX

Sun, 17 Mar 2019 13:07:42 +0000

ActivityPub does know events, but as Mike has stated it does not know many of those useful features we would love to see. Reoccuring events, for example.

Max

Mon, 18 Mar 2019 22:05:39 +0000

@Silvio Grau @Mike Macgirvin ⚡ @ojrandom @h.ear.t | tobias
@zotlabs.org | Hubzilla Development

Since #ActivityPub and #zot6 use #activitystream , which is RDF-based, why not use RDFCalendar vocabulary which supports all iCal features, like reoccurring events?

Zot is dead

Max

Wed, 06 Mar 2019 22:34:02 +0000 last edited: Wed, 06 Mar 2019 22:59:38 +0000

I really worry about the future of Zot...

First observation: no new project based on Zot is created

Second observation: no existing project works on adding Zot support (eg: https://git.feneas.org/socialhome/socialhome/issues/479 Socialhome gave up)

I see 2 reasons to explain that:

No documentation (a volatile wikipage on @Mike Macgirvin ⚡ space with messy notes is not a documentation. Compare OWA specs with https://indieauth.spec.indieweb.org/ )
It's not a standard.
See https://github.com/nextcloud/social/issues/228 . The fact that's it's not a standard make devs believe it's not stable, tested, and well-designed. And they're right: #zot6 is not yet fully deployed that limitations already raise and a zot8 version is on the way...

What we need:

A true documentation and a standardization process (where other devs can submit comments, where PoC are used to valid it...)
Library, to ease the use by other projects. See https://github.com/dsblank/activitypub, https://github.com/go-fed/activity, https://github.com/dansup/php-activitypub for #activitypub

With this 2 points, #zot acceptation should increase. I think some projects will have a look (like #solid which really fit with #NomadicIdentities concept)

Without Zot adoption, there will be only 2 active projects by the same small coreteam, and it's going to die (like #Diaspora* will eventually).
@Matt Dent (Zap) complains about lack of developers for #Hubzilla. I was willing to offer my help (because 147 issues is quite high), but when I looked to the code I was frighten. It's a real mess with lots of looseness, bug-prone parts, and spaghetti code. For instance, hardcoded MySQL request in controllers... come on! Even the ckeckstyle is not respected!
By not using frameworks, Hubzilla present a non-maintainable, hard to evolute, bug-prone code. It would need a real refactor (with a framework I guess). Or another project from scratch when zot is a standard...

I used to be a Hz enthusiast.
I'd like to be one again.

!Hubzilla Support Forum !zotlabs.org | Hubzilla Development

show all 9 Comments

ivan zlax

Thu, 07 Mar 2019 09:42:51 +0000 last edited: Thu, 07 Mar 2019 09:43:32 +0000

@Max if you change the subject of this topic i will to join to your enthusiasm.

Mario Vavti

Thu, 07 Mar 2019 10:32:40 +0000

Well, instead of waisting your time complainig, better roll up your sleeves and start fixing what you think needs fixing :wink:

OJ Random

Thu, 07 Mar 2019 16:46:33 +0000

@max I would suggest to just give it a try and debug Hubzilla a little bit on the server side, write an own small plugin,... It is much fun and fascinating how well thought and elegant the solutions are. Think about it a moment - the solutions Hubzilla takles are not trivial. While debugging the code I was astonished how clear and simple the ideas appear to solve those non trivial tasks.

See the evolution of the protocol as a good sign. The main devs dare to refactor things. Despite all this Hubzilla runs stable. This is no accident.

Yesterday I just exported my ID/channel to a JSON file, installed a new Hub on the same Raspi 3 using a new URL and imported my ID into the new Hub. It just WORKS! Do you know a Software (AP, Diaspora, Mastodon,...) that can do those kind of stuff?

Mario Vavti

Thu, 07 Mar 2019 18:44:20 +0000

@Eric Buijs the only disrespectful thing so far is the title of the post...

paulfree14

Thu, 07 Mar 2019 19:10:54 +0000

there's some wording that I find critical.

Overlooking that, it's a critic that is valid.
If it's true another question.

dev

Fri, 08 Mar 2019 09:48:09 +0000

Zot is not dead, but the documentation is .... you know, there isn't a unique way to read all the spec, and todo, and to understand how is working ! It's really hard to come in this project !

I'm trying to help on https://framagit.org/hubzilla/core

Is it a good way ?

Max

Tue, 12 Mar 2019 09:01:05 +0000 last edited: Tue, 12 Mar 2019 09:41:15 +0000

Sadly, @M. Dent totally missed the point, and think that ad nominem attacks could make you appear you're right. Too bad.
(By the way, he seems to ignore that I'm a Hubzilla advocacy outside the zotiverse (it woul be useless inside), and he didn't search very long about my records in the community. In short, a useless comment of a upset man... Forgettable)

@ivan zlax, @paulfree14 : yes, the title is provocative. But sometimes, some one has to thumped the table. I'm glad to see people agree, but it would be better if they expressed it before my post.

@Mario Vavti : here it is
https://www.w3.org/community/blog/2019/03/11/proposed-group-zot-protocol-community-group/

Once at least 5 people have supported the proposal, the group will be
launched and people will be able to join.

Now it's your turn.

#zot #hubzilla #Zot6

Mario Vavti

Tue, 12 Mar 2019 09:21:23 +0000

Sorry @Max, if you want to continue this discussion please start a new one with a positive approach...

Altyr on Zap

Fri, 04 Dec 2020 18:57:22 +0000

Hello.

Now that #Hubzilla 5 is released, and #Zot6 used in several projets, what is the status of documentation and workshop at #W3C?

[Fixed]

Yuki (雪亮) 🇵🇭 🌏

Tue, 14 Aug 2018 23:27:22 +0000 last edited: Fri, 05 Oct 2018 21:50:42 +0000

I've been testing federation between different platforms and networks for a while, there seems to be a bug somewhere between #Pleroma and #Hubzilla . Anyone else who is more capable and see which project we should file a bug report?

Here's what I did:

On a Pleroma instance: add a Hubzilla channel
In a Hubzilla instance, you won't receive a connection request
Post a new status in Hubzilla, it won't appear on Pleroma
Add manually the Pleroma account that added your Hubzilla channel
Post a new status in Hubzilla, it will now show up on Pleroma

* Tested from iscute.moe and luna.town (Pleroma) vs. my own Hubzilla hub.

Since Pleroma is using #ActivityPub (and also #OStatus ), I tried the same under #Mastodon and #Misskey (both using ActivityPub) and connections work fine (except for Misskey, it's not receiving new posts coming from Hubzilla, but that's for a different test/report).

Anyway, this is not that important in the grand scheme of things but I think filing a bug report in the proper project is good, so if someone wants to pick it up later, they know it's there. :)

!Hubzilla Development

*This post/comment is Copyleft ? 2018 under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike (CC By-SA) 4.0 International License.*

bug

show all 5 Comments

Thu, 16 Aug 2018 19:09:05 +0000

@Mario Vavti, will this fix backported to master branch?

Mario Vavti

Fri, 17 Aug 2018 07:35:10 +0000

I just got a cinnection request from a pleroma profile. So this seens to be working now. I will not backport this to master before some more testing on eventual regressions though...

Yuki (雪亮) 🇵🇭 🌏

Fri, 05 Oct 2018 21:54:34 +0000

As promised, tested this one after switching to 3.8RC. Following a Hubzilla channel from a Pleroma instance now works. Hubzilla receives the connection/follow.

Zotlabs|Hubzilla Development

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