Zotlabs|Hubzilla Development

Mon, 28 Nov 2022 09:47:38 +0000

Scott M. Stolz wrote the following post Mon, 28 Nov 2022 09:47:38 +0000

ActivityPub for Forums

An interesting discussion opened up on how to standardize ActivityPub for forums.

https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/fep-1b12-group-federation/2665

I thought some of you might find that interesting since Hubzilla has public forums.

forums activitypub hubzilla

show all 4 Comments

Scott M. Stolz

Tue, 29 Nov 2022 12:36:36 +0000

I know one of the major complaints and frustrations I hear from certain developers is that ActivityPub implementations are not always standardized, so you have to test each platform to make sure it actually works. So some agreement over how to handle things like forums and moderation would be good.

Sebastian Taile

Wed, 30 Nov 2022 13:36:08 +0000

I've been using AP as my only social media for a couple of years now and can't wait to have groups implemented.
I think many AP projects were delaying their group functionality until there was some form of standardization.

Although Hubzilla has far more extensive group infrastructure than current and proposed AP implementations given it's network-spanning identity system, very detailed permissions system and add-ons such as wikis. Hubzilla feels like group infrastructure first and foremost.
That being said sometimes the simpler solution is the one that ends up getting wide adoption.

Scott M. Stolz

Wed, 30 Nov 2022 14:09:38 +0000

I feel it's like an email client versus a full blown customer management system (CRM). They both can handle SMTP and IMAP emails, but their use case is different. Email clients might dominant because it's simple, but some people still need a CRM.

Standardization on how groups and forums talk to one another is an important step, though. I hope it happens soon. I plan on rolling out forums and communities on all of my websites.

zotlabs.org | Hubzilla Development

Sun, 27 Nov 2022 10:49:22 +0000

Harald Eilertsen wrote the following post Sun, 27 Nov 2022 10:49:18 +0000

What the /?f=

What is the significance of the f query param that seems to be tacked on to every URL in Hubzilla? I've not found that it ever have a value, or that it's even required. Why is it there in the first place, and do we need to keep on to it?

Mario Vavti

Sun, 27 Nov 2022 11:01:19 +0000

There was a reason i do not quite recall atm in the past. It is questionable if it is still required. I think it had to do with apache and the suoshin patch or something like that...

Harald Eilertsen

Mon, 28 Nov 2022 13:53:41 +0000

@Mario Vavti So about php 5.x or so then? I find no mention of it in the source tree.

Mario Vavti

Mon, 28 Nov 2022 16:19:30 +0000

@Mike Macgirvin might have more info about the reasoning.

zotlabs.org | Hubzilla Development

Fri, 28 Oct 2022 08:48:19 +0000

Mark Nowiasz wrote the following post Fri, 28 Oct 2022 08:48:19 +0000

Wrong number of "unread" comments

Hi, I've noticed an off-by-ten display error: The number of unread comments has got an "1" in front of the real number of comments (see screenshot for an example).

If the number of unread comments is above 10 (for example 18) the number says 118 or so.

zotlabs.org | Hubzilla Development

Wed, 26 Oct 2022 11:41:51 +0000

Einer von Vielen wrote the following post Wed, 26 Oct 2022 11:41:51 +0000

Setup of fresh install of Streams fails

After a fresh install of Debian11 and Streams the very first page load of the new site results in...

Fatal error: Uncaught Error: Call to undefined function Code\Module\is_windows() in /var/www/streams/Code/Module/Setup.php:393 Stack trace: #0 /var/www/streams/Code/Module/Setup.php(262): Code\Module\Setup->check_php() #1 /var/www/streams/Code/Web/Router.php(260): Code\Module\Setup->get() #2 /var/www/streams/Code/Web/WebServer.php(55): Code\Web\Router->Dispatch() #3 /var/www/streams/index.php(14): Code\Web\WebServer->run() #4 {main} thrown in /var/www/streams/Code/Module/Setup.php on line 393

The site is https://lau.digitalesparadies.de/

It was installed using .easyinstall -script without any errors.

show all 10 Comments

Einer von Vielen

Wed, 26 Oct 2022 11:43:01 +0000

How to get rid of this?
Any ideas?

Tanja

Wed, 26 Oct 2022 12:38:32 +0000

Oh. I just tried to install Streams on shared hosting this morning and got the same error. I thought there was a problem with the hosting configuration that stopped it from working. Good to know.

Einer von Vielen

Wed, 26 Oct 2022 13:45:21 +0000

@Tanja (tanja@hz.lazyteddy.eu) Good to know as well

I guess @mike (mike@unfediverse.com) will be the one who can fix this faster than anybody else on this planet.

Einer von Vielen

Wed, 26 Oct 2022 15:00:33 +0000 last edited: Wed, 26 Oct 2022 18:01:16 +0000

The quick fix for me was to comment out some lines around /var/www/streams/Code/Module/Setup.php on line 393 basically the call is_windows()

if (strlen($phpath)) {
            $passed = file_exists($phpath);
        } elseif (function_exists('shell_exec')) {
  //          if (is_windows()) {
  //              $phpath = trim(shell_exec('where php'));
  //          } else {
                $phpath = trim(shell_exec('which php'));
//            }
            $passed = strlen($phpath);
        }

Everthing went well. The setup went through. The admin user was registered as very first user in the registration page.

@Papa Dragon (dragondaddy@zap.omtc.fr)
After running /var/www/cron_job.sh the server reboots.
Result

https://lau.digitalesparadies.de/ says there is no connection
http://lau.digitalesparadies.de/ shows the "Apache2 Debian Default Page" what is strange because I did not install Apache (consciously) and it worked before having choosen Nginx during the easyinstall. I am puzzled at the moment why Apache has taken over.

Einer von Vielen

Wed, 26 Oct 2022 17:58:32 +0000

This pull request https://codeberg.org/streams/streams/pulls/12 fixes some issues related to Apache of the installation mentioned above.

Einer von Vielen

Wed, 26 Oct 2022 17:59:58 +0000

Anyway I did not touch /var/www/streams/Code/Module/Setup.php So this is still an issue.

Einer von Vielen

Wed, 26 Oct 2022 18:05:35 +0000

See https://codeberg.org/streams/streams/issues/13

Einer von Vielen

Wed, 26 Oct 2022 18:59:26 +0000

Anyway I did not touch /var/www/streams/Code/Module/Setup.php So this is still an issue.

Haha, this is out of date. @mike fixed it already.

Einer von Vielen

Thu, 27 Oct 2022 08:47:45 +0000

Status update: all famlily members have their clones on the new server. Everything was synchronized even the content of my channel, tons of pictures, files,... Perfect. It feels magic how the sync between clones work. I was watching the load of the network of the server. The load was high/busy for at least 1.5 hours with around 5 Mb/s.

Einer von Vielen

Thu, 27 Oct 2022 09:05:24 +0000

Next week I will move my second family server from Roadhouse to Streams. It is a Raspberry Pi 4 that runs and runs and runs...

zotlabs.org | Hubzilla Development

Sun, 23 Oct 2022 09:56:48 +0000

Scott M. Stolz wrote the following post Sun, 23 Oct 2022 09:56:48 +0000

Connection to an Additional Database

I am working on some modules that will require a connection to a different database. Is there a particular way to do this in Hubzilla? I know that Hubzilla has its own database functions.

What I planned on doing was creating a connection.php file (containing the database connection strings) in the custom folder and then include that in any widget, module, or addon that uses that database.

Or is there another recommended way of doing it in Hubzilla?

zotlabs.org | Hubzilla Development

Sun, 23 Oct 2022 09:46:46 +0000

Scott M. Stolz wrote the following post Sun, 23 Oct 2022 09:46:40 +0000

Design Decisions: Themes, Addons, Modules, Widgets

I am currently working on a new theme that will include some additional features. I am trying to package it so that it can be added to Hubzilla without interfering with core files.

The current structure I plan on using is:

/view/theme for the theme itself.
/widget for widgets required by the theme.
/ZotLabs/SiteModule for modules required by the theme.
/addon for optional features.

Is this the optimal file structure?

show all 16 Comments

Harald Eilertsen

Wed, 14 Dec 2022 17:55:24 +0000

I have no idea, but it looks sensible, I think.

One snag I can think of is that it will add a number of untracked files in the core git repo. This can confuse some people. And it doesn't allow for installing the theme just by cloning it's repo. But imo that is one of the problems of using git as the distribution method.

Scott M. Stolz

Wed, 14 Dec 2022 18:16:25 +0000

@Harald Eilertsen Supposedly there is a way to have multiple repositories update a website. Hubzilla already does that with the separate core and add-ons repositories. I'm not that familiar with git so hopefully I can find someone who knows how to show me or provide example code.

Scott M. Stolz

Wed, 14 Dec 2022 18:26:43 +0000 last edited: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 18:28:46 +0000

The challenge is that I'm creating multiple themes which all will share common resources like widgets and add-ons and modules.

Streams uses /Code/SiteWidget (or something like that) for widgets but I tried using /Zotlabs/SiteWidget for Hubzilla and it didn't work. That is forcing me to put widgets in the widgets folder.

If add-ons has a SiteAddon folder or something similar, I'm unaware of the correct path.

Dan d'Auge

Wed, 14 Dec 2022 18:28:51 +0000

I use the git pull command to update our hub. Example for the hubzilla core:

git remote set-url origin https://framagit.org/hubzilla/core.git
and
git pull https://framagit.org/hubzilla/core.git master

Wouldn't it be better if your work was directly available in the official(s) repository(s)?

Harald Eilertsen

Wed, 14 Dec 2022 18:34:36 +0000

@Scott M. Stolz Yeah, that's because the addon (and widget) repositories goes into their own subdirectory.

That is, the ./extend/addon/hzaddon directory is a separate git-repo that is not part of the core repo. Everything under it belongs to the hzaddons repo.

You can't have two repositories in the same root.

There's ways to work around it, though: put everything you need under your theme dir, and when the theme is activated the first time, it symlinks the different parts to their proper places in the file system. The addon logic do something similar for the installed addon repositories.

Scott M. Stolz

Wed, 14 Dec 2022 18:40:10 +0000 last edited: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 18:47:14 +0000

@Dan d'Auge

Wouldn't it be better if your work was directly available in the official(s) repository(s)?

I'd love all or part of it to be in the official repositories. But the challenge is that I have an entirely different use case than Streams or Hubzilla.

Hubzilla and Streams are focused on decentralized social media. I'm focused on commercializing the software so small businesses, content websites, and non-profits can build a website and have a social presence all-in-one.

Also, right now Neuhub is a proof of concept. No one took me seriously until they started seeing code developed. If the maintainers of Hubzilla and Streams want to incorporate my code, I'd love it.

The second challenge is that I am trying to support both Streams and Hubzilla, so having it in a separate repository speeds up development and testing. I also don't have to wait for the maintainers of Hubzilla or Streams to approve my submissions.

I'm guessing all or part of it will eventually find its way into Hubzilla. But that's not up to me.

P.S. When I say commercialize, I mean that commercial entities can use the software. Neuhub will always be MIT licensed.

Scott M. Stolz

Wed, 14 Dec 2022 18:55:53 +0000

@Harald Eilertsen The challenge is that I want to use the same widgets in multiple themes and don't want to have to update dozens of copies of the same file for one change.

Widgets aren't really a problem since I can give widgets unique names that won't conflict. It's unlikely that anyone else will prefix their widgets with "neuhub."

Add-ons are an issue though because as far as I can tell, the name of the addon and module must match the URL you want to use. So if you want to use example.com/article then your addon and module must be named Article. This can lead to conflicts if not managed.

Harald Eilertsen

Wed, 14 Dec 2022 19:16:30 +0000

@Scott M. Stolz

The challenge is that I want to use the same widgets in multiple themes

Makes sense.

One way could be to have separate repos for each (neuhub-widgets, neuhub-theme, neuhub-addons), and then just install each part separately using the ./util/add_{addon,widget,theme}_repo scripts.

Not sure what to do about path/module conflicts though. That's potentially a more tricky issue.

Scott M. Stolz

Wed, 14 Dec 2022 19:19:27 +0000

@Harald Eilertsen

One way could be to have separate repos for each (neuhub-widgets, neuhub-theme, neuhub-addons), and then just install each part separately using the ./util/add_{addon,widget,theme}_repo scripts.

My concern with that the themes are dependent on the widgets. I want to avoid a scenario where someone only downloads part of it and it doesn't work.

Harald Eilertsen

Wed, 14 Dec 2022 19:40:39 +0000

@Scott M. Stolz I understand that, but I'm not sure how to solve it elegantly as my understanding of architecture is right now. You can always check that everything is in place within the theme, and give a helpful error message if not.

Scott M. Stolz

Wed, 14 Dec 2022 20:34:37 +0000

@Harald Eilertsen That's true. A simple check to see if the required file exists would mitigate that. That would also mean that people could install the widgets without the themes if they wanted. Because the widgets will work without the themes, but the themes won't work without the widgets. Well, technically the themes will work without the widgets, but stuff would be missing.

On the topic of file conflicts...

Based on the .gitignore file, addon/, widget/, view/theme/*, and custom/ directories are safe places to upload stuff. I was also told Zotlabs/SiteModule is also a safe place to upload stuff (even though it is not in the .gitignore file).

That means that my addons, modules, widgets, and themes won't get overwritten by Hubzilla. The risk is that other addons, modules, and widgets written by third-parties might use the same names and same file locations, causing a conflict.

I can make my stuff so it doesn't conflict with Hubzilla, but I can't guarantee it won't conflict with someone else's custom code.

If I use repo scripts (like Hubzilla addons uses), how does that handle duplicate module and addon names?

Harald Eilertsen

Wed, 14 Dec 2022 22:51:23 +0000

@Scott M. Stolz

If I use repo scripts (like Hubzilla addons uses), how does that handle duplicate module and addon names?

It doesn't. That is, it will iterate over the subdirs in each repo in order, and symlink them to the addons dir. If the target dir already exist it will skip it.

So if addon repo A has a addon foo, and repo B also has a foo addon, only A's foo will be installed. But each addon can have their own modules within their subdir, so I don't think that's going to be a problem. I can check a bit more tomorrow.

Scott M. Stolz

Wed, 14 Dec 2022 23:25:29 +0000

@Harald Eilertsen I know that the module must have the same name of the URL. That can't be overridden. But if it were possible to change the addon name to something unique, then the modules would only conflict if the addon was enabled... in theory.

Harald Eilertsen

Thu, 15 Dec 2022 09:05:38 +0000 last edited: Thu, 15 Dec 2022 09:06:33 +0000

@Scott M. Stolz

I know that the module must have the same name of the URL

No, that's not entirely correct, you can register the URL you want, see for example the Superblock addon, where the module is called Mod_Superblock.php while the route is baseurl/superblock.

And these routes will override the modules provided in Zotlabs/SiteModule and Zotlabs/Module.

Modules in Zotlabs/SiteModule and Zotlabs/Module must have the same name as the route, only with a capital first letter.

Scott M. Stolz

Thu, 15 Dec 2022 10:55:26 +0000 last edited: Thu, 15 Dec 2022 10:58:40 +0000

So, we have covered widgets, themes, and addons.

How do we handle files in the custom folder or added to the Hubzilla core?

For example, Neuhub widgets are dependent on WidgetInterface, which is a file included in the Streams core but not the Hubzilla core. I've included the file in Neuhub so it gets uploaded to Hubzilla.

https://github.com/WisTex/Neuhub/blob/main/Zotlabs/Widget/WidgetInterface.php

And I will have some custom code that would be cumbersome to turn into an addon or module. For example, if I generate admin pages in PHPRunner, those would most likely be uploaded to its own folder.

Perhaps instead of depending on the ./util/add_{addon,widget,theme}_repo scripts, a util script that installs all of Neuhub would be better. Unless there is a a util for custom code too.

Harald Eilertsen

Thu, 15 Dec 2022 21:18:49 +0000 last edited: Thu, 15 Dec 2022 21:19:06 +0000

@Scott M. Stolz I haven't seen any other scripts suitable for handling completely custom code. Making your own is absolutely an option worth exploring I think. Could even be part of the setup routine for the theme. There's many ways leading to Rome, it's just about finding the one you're most comfortable with :)

zotlabs.org | Hubzilla Development

Fri, 27 May 2022 08:47:05 +0000

Scott M. Stolz wrote the following post Fri, 27 May 2022 08:47:05 +0000

Extendable Protocols

It would be nice if the protocols that Hubzilla uses, such as Zot and ActivityPub, could be extended to support additional information similar to how e-mail headers work.

Any sending e-mail client can add whatever e-mail headers it wants to an e-mail. Receiving e-mail clients can choose to use those fields or ignore them.

Such a setup would allow Hubzilla forums to communicate with each other without confusing other platforms.

Platforms that do not recognize the additional fields get a basic experience. Platforms that recognize the additional forum-related fields would get an enhanced experience.

hubzilla zot activitypub

emaxmax

Fri, 27 May 2022 19:32:42 +0000

#Zot and #ActivityPub are #RDF based, which is the most extensible model nowdays.

Scott M. Stolz

Sat, 28 May 2022 08:40:55 +0000

But would other platforms get confused if there were additional information attached? Or would they just ignore it if they don't know what it is?

zotlabs.org | Hubzilla Development

Thu, 12 May 2022 10:41:11 +0000

Scott M. Stolz wrote the following post Thu, 12 May 2022 10:41:10 +0000

Owner of a Post vs. its Author

Do the Zot protocol and Hubzilla differentiate between the owner of the post and its author?

For example, if you post on someone else's wall or on a forum, the post owner is the channel you posted on, but the author is the person who posted.

This naturally allows for different permission levels to be applied, with the owner of the post (the channel) basically having full admin/moderator rights over the post, while still allowing the author of the post to edit it.

I am creating a new theme and eventually some forum mods, but something like this seems to be something that would need to be in the core, which is why I am asking here.

show all 13 Comments

Mario Vavti

Thu, 12 May 2022 12:57:03 +0000

Yes, Hubzilla differentiates between author and owner in the case of wall to wall posts or sourced posts.
Forum posts are a special case though. Posts to a forum will always be reshared by the forum in which case both the owner and author is the forum channel.

Scott M. Stolz

Thu, 12 May 2022 13:27:40 +0000

@Mario Vavti

Forum posts are a special case though. Posts to a forum will always be reshared by the forum in which case both the owner and author is the forum channel.

Is there a reason why it is done that way? Traditionally, forums have separate permissions for the admin (channel) and the author.

Scott M. Stolz

Thu, 12 May 2022 15:15:21 +0000

@Mario Vavti

reshared by the forum

Since you mentioned "reshared," I am guessing that it has something to do with how forum post notifications are sent to other hubs. Although I am not fully understanding why you can't include the author information and title anyway.

If it is because of how notifications work, I think that perhaps the presentation via notifications and the local presentation need to be different. That information should at least be available locally even if it is not available remotely.

Mario Vavti

Thu, 12 May 2022 15:58:49 +0000

The reason is interoperability. None of the other fediverse projects supports the owner/author model.

Scott M. Stolz

Thu, 12 May 2022 17:55:10 +0000

@Mario Vavti

The reason is interoperability. None of the other fediverse projects supports the owner/author model.

But how do the Wall-to-Wall posts work then? They have both the author and the channel. ("Author via Channel") Are wall-to-wall posts only possible Hubzilla-to-Hubzilla?

Mario Vavti

Sat, 14 May 2022 06:46:30 +0000

@Scott M. Stolz i don't think we federate wall to wall posts to activitypub or diaspora currently.

Scott M. Stolz

Sat, 14 May 2022 14:45:01 +0000

@Mario Vavti Okay. Thank you. That makes sense. And thank you for being so patient with me. I am still trying to learn how Hubzilla works.

Looking in the database, it looks like:
1. Some forum posts have the author and title stored in the item table.
2. Some forum posts have the author and title stored in the body of the post.

[share author='Scott+M.+Stolz' profile='https://wistex.biz/channel/scott' portable_id='xxx' avatar='https://completehostingguide.com/photo/profile/s/10' link='https://completehostingguide.com/item/xxx' auth='true' posted='2022-05-14 01:44:13' message_id='https://completehostingguide.com/item/xxx'][h3][b]Example Post[/b][/h3]

I assume that forum posts that are locally created are the ones with all of the information in the database, and posts that came in via federation do not.

So, it sounds like what I will need to do is extract the post information (author and title) from the body, and then reformat it so that it looks like a forum post when viewed locally.

Does this sound like a reasonable way to do it?

Mario Vavti

Sat, 14 May 2022 18:21:40 +0000 last edited: Sat, 14 May 2022 19:08:32 +0000

@Scott M. Stolz i have no objection to add the title for all the posts if you think this is a requirement. It would be a minor change in include/items.php where we create the reshare from the received direct message.

Mario Vavti

Sat, 14 May 2022 18:31:40 +0000

@Scott M. Stolz https://framagit.org/hubzilla/core/-/commit/62b1ff4ba1844d9019aebd328256a38979e1f717

Scott M. Stolz

Sat, 14 May 2022 18:56:39 +0000

Thank you. Having the title display as the title instead of in the post would give it a more consistent design.

Speaking of item.php, what is the difference between item.php and display.php? From reading the comments in those files, it sounds like display is for public posts and item is for private posts. Or am I misunderstanding the difference between the two?

Mario Vavti

Sat, 14 May 2022 19:11:13 +0000

@Scott M. Stolz i was referring to include/items.php not Zotlabs/Module/Item.php

In general Zotlabs/Module/Item.php is used to create new content via a POST request while Zotlabs/Module/Display.php is for displaying content.

Scott M. Stolz

Sat, 14 May 2022 19:41:54 +0000

I noticed that for every post, there is an /item/xxx (plink) version and a /display/xxx (llink) version. And sometimes the /item/xxx does not work while /display/xxx for the same post works.

I am guessing llink = local link, and plink = permanent link.

Someone, I think you, mentioned that the plink will not always work since the owner is the forum, not the person viewing the post. But, since we know (or should know) that it is a local forum post and know (or should know) that it is publicly visible, shouldn't it be publicly visible when viewed via /item/xxx?

Scott M. Stolz

Sat, 14 May 2022 20:16:47 +0000

Another option would be to create a specific page for viewing public forum posts. This would allow forum posts to have different formatting than social media posts. It also allows for additional forum related features to be added to the local view.

When Hubzilla sends out the notifications via zot, activitypub, diaspora, etc., Hubzilla links back to the forum post display page instead of /item.

This might be a easier solution because the permission logic is so simple for forum posts. That page just checks if it is a forum post and publicly visible, It is also easily extendable without having to be concerned with non-forum post permissions, which is much more complicated.

Maybe this is the direction I should go for displaying local forum posts, instead of depending on /item/xxx?

zotlabs.org | Hubzilla Development

Thu, 05 May 2022 08:44:04 +0000

RockyIII wrote the following post Thu, 05 May 2022 08:44:04 +0000

compatibility by edited Posts in the Fediverse

editing for published statuses is now implemented by mastodon

https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/pull/16697

Will this be compatible with ZOT ?
and
Will Mastodon get now edited Hubzilla posts as well ?

Mario Vavti

Thu, 05 May 2022 10:36:34 +0000

If they use regular activitypub it should be fine...

zotlabs.org | Hubzilla Development

Wed, 04 May 2022 18:15:50 +0000

Mario Vavti wrote the following post Wed, 04 May 2022 18:15:48 +0000

Dev Headsup

Will be starting to move cards, articles and wiki to addons soon...

@!zotlabs.org | Hubzilla Development

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